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January 13th, 2010 Archives

Changing the Greek stereotype

By Eleanor Ankrom

It really is hilarious how the fraternities/sororities mentioned in this article are the ones that NO ONE CARES ABOUT. Where are the top...
31 Comments + Add Yours

Frat-boys, chatches, sorostitutes: these are just a few of the names given to those who fit the fraternity and sorority stereotypes. The popular portrayal of Greek brothers and sisters is that of beer-guzzling, raucous partiers with money to burn, who generally give college life a bad name.

While some recruitment flyers claim, "We are men of Class," the lawns of some houses on "Frat Row" are regularly littered with red solo cups.

"I'm technically still a member of AEPi, but seeing OSU's chapter makes me want to vomit," said Benjamin Muskal, an OSU student who joined the Jewish fraternity, Alpha Epsilon Pi, in Canada. However, Muskal said he thoroughly enjoyed his Canadian AEPi experience. "Maybe it's just an American thing," he said.

The sorority stereotype faces similar challenges. Take, for example, the online game, "Sorority Life." "Sorority Life's" primary logo is of three heavily made up artistic renderings of three white females - a redhead, a brunette and a blonde. As a "sorority girl" you can shop, shop, buy things and compete for dates. Occasionally, landing the guy of the week (i.e. Marc le Mystere, or Seth the Surfer) means a fictional charity will receive assistance. Some might say that doesn't sound too far from reality.

Yet not all Greeks are about keg stands and getting dates.

The Panhellenic Association recently launched an ad campaign, which introduced some sisters who did not fit the ditzy, blonde, boy-crazy clones often portrayed in the media. The ads portrayed young women with serious aspirations, diverse ethnic backgrounds and interests ranging from sports to politics to environmental issues.

The preferred pastime of Pi Kappa Phi, for example, appears to be 72-hour bike rides to raise money for Push America, an organization benefiting the disabled. Alpha Psi Lambda focuses on local community service and stresses family values and the Latino culture.

Lea Madry contemplated joining a sorority, but, along with other young women, couldn't find one that exactly fit her goals and values. So she founded Delta Xi Phi Multicultural Sorority in the winter of 2008.

"The beauty of Greek life at Ohio State is that there are so many different options prospective Greeks can choose from," Madry said. "Each of the Greek organizations on this campus has unique values and dynamics."

According to the Ohio Union, OSU is home to 60 fraternities and sororities with various philanthropic priorities, academic focuses and ethnic origins.

"When you join an organization that's the best fit for you, you're able to meet and have a lot of fun with people who share some of your values, priorities and interests," Madry said.

Regardless of the specific sorority or fraternity, many "go Greek" for the networking opportunities. And Greeks are motivated to manage their time in order to meet their chapter's academic requirements.

"Being Greek does not mean going to party every night," said Jennifer Caceres, President of the of the OSU chapter of Alpha Psi Lambda (a co-ed, Latino interest fraternity). "It means creating strong bonds with other brothers or sisters and being there for emotional and academic support, and the networking opportunities."

She added that she is not aware of there being a negative view of Greeks on campus. "If there is a negative stereotype, it is a complete misrepresentation of Greek life, especially the Greek community at OSU," Caceres said.

Possible reasons why the stereotypes exist:

Possible reasons why the stereotypes exist:
You're paying for friends
Brandon Williams, a current student, might have considered fraternity life at one point, but ultimately decided against it. "Why would I pay to be friends with people I don't like?" he said.

The average cost of membership dues varies from council to council. The Pan-Hellenic Council's dues range from $420 to $900 a year. The Inter-Greek Council's average yearly cost is between $150-$300, while The Inter-Fraternity Council's costs vary from $600-$1000 a year.

The income from dues - similar to many colligate clubs - is directed toward social events, costs of recruitment materials and other necessary functions of the sorority or fraternity. Most chapters have payment plans for their members, in case a lump sum is problematic.

"Some even offer scholarships to help those who have a financial hardship," Caceres said. "Alumnae donate money to help the students who can't afford to live in-house in order to give them the opportunity to experience the bonds of Greek life."

Lingering rumors of hazing
"Hazing" might not be such a thing of the past at Ohio University. A November 2009 article in The Columbus Dispatch reported a "hazing" incident perpetrated by Delta Tau Delta. The allegations were that the unfortunate pledges were "forced to drink large amounts of alcohol" and that they were slapped around while blindfolded.

"In all fairness though, the hazing is nothing like what you see in your "Animal House"-type renderings of the frat world," Williams said. "Then again, there is the kid I know who got locked in a shed with a goat. He wasn't allowed out until he had sex with the goat." (He didn't have sex with the goat, according to Williams.)

Most fraternities and sororities are very vocal about their adamant anti-hazing policies, warning of a zero-tolerance policy.

Greek's party reputation
The Greek Life Task Force created its Goals and Standards of Excellence in order to unite the fraternities and sororities in meeting certain academic expectations. Those wishing to pledge must have a minimum 2.5 GPA. Some chapters require higher grades to join, as well as to remain a member, and might compete for the highest grades.

Whatever your choice when it comes to taking the plunge into brother or sisterhood, OSU offers a diverse array of options for the curious would-be Greek. They promise not to force you to drink alcohol, lock you in sheds or otherwise violate the Ohio State Student Code of Conduct.

But what are the paddles for?

Originally Published: January 13, 2010

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Comments

  1. Benjamin Musteal is a made-up person. Great reporting!

    eta | 2010-01-13 - 12:42:17 PM (CDT)

  2. An OSU people search can’t find anyone with the last name of Musteal. Way to go.

    Lame | 2010-01-13 - 01:05:28 PM (CDT)

  3. Benjamin is a real person, but his last name was regrettably misspelled. The corrections have been made to the online version of this article. UWeekly apologizes for this error.

    Kate L | 2010-01-13 - 02:34:01 PM (CDT)

  4. I’m a former member of a sorority and while my sorority was very into community service, many of our members are more comcerned with partying and backstabbing... I’m glad I’m no longer associated with that kind of life

    buckeyegreek | 2010-01-13 - 03:09:45 PM (CDT)

  5. Delts haze, big surprise. They kill a member, then come back in record time, and then start hazing again. How long until they kill someone else?

    OsuGreek | 2010-01-13 - 04:03:17 PM (CDT)

  6. As someone who went through most of the pledging process before deciding against joining a frat, and having several friends in frats, there seem to be some gross misconceptions and errors in this article.

    First off, when I pledged two years ago, the fraternity told me dues would be 600-800 per quarter. That’s a LOT more than per year, and that was not to live in the house.

    Also, most of the friends I have state that a very sizable percentage of brothers do NOT make the 2.5 minimum GPA, but still live in the house, as "inactive" brothers.

    It seems to me like there are a lot of loopholes for the Greeks to lose everyone else in, maybe because everyone who has the power to stop it was Greek when they were in school, and don’t think much of it.

    OSU’s Greek Life has a pitiful reputation outside of itself. There are always the exceptions to the rule, but from my experience with other schools or Greeks from OSU, something needs to give.

    Too much weight is put into organizations that represent less than 10% of the student population.

    Jack | 2010-01-13 - 05:09:19 PM (CDT)

  7. Re: Jack

    The rules are much much looser for fraternities than sororities. I will say, the dues reported here are wrong. It is typically a minimum of a 1100 dollars a year in dues. Dues are 500 a quarter and up for most sororities.

    Girls who are inactive are not allowed to live in houses and they must keep their GPA up or they will be removed.

    Honestly | 2010-01-13 - 05:20:54 PM (CDT)

  8. Ben is wrong. What does sick to my stomach mean? Because the chapter here has 80 guys and is a social fraternity rather than his mcgil chapter that has 23? Wow, talk about brotherhood. The aepi chapter at osu is one of the tightest chapters in terms of brotherhood I have encountered across conventions and conclaves nationwide. they like to have a good time too, but are very responsible and anyone who knows them knows they don’t fall into the "frat boy" stereotype.

    Ben, way to throw your fraternity under the bus...good brotherhood man!

    gobucks | 2010-01-13 - 05:47:26 PM (CDT)

  9. I know several of the girls who are featured in the Panhellenic Association’s sorority ad campaign. I love the fact that they’re trying to portray people who "break the mold" of your "stereotypical" sorority girl. Some of those girls featured may do unique things and do some community service, but that is only ON TOP of being the ditzy, partying gossip girls who talk behind their fellow "sisters" backs and thrive on their materialistic lifestyles. The OSU Greeks can try and deny all the stereotypes as much as they want, but let’s be real here...You know that most of those stereotypes hit the nail right on the head. To each his/her own on how you want to live your life...but at least own up to it and stop trying to sugar coat what’s really going on.

    realistic p.o.v. | 2010-01-13 - 06:03:55 PM (CDT)

  10. This reporting is sub-par at best. You didn’t interview a single credible source. MCGC is much different than the other Greek Life, not necessarily in a bad way, but different. Also, the suggestion at the bottom about paddles is nothing less than tabloid-esque bs; why is it a separate paragraph? Quit trying to come up with snarky endings and just make a legitimate report.

    I will be graduating soon from OSU and was a member of Greek Life for several years. I pledged in my Sophomore year, so I also know what it is like to be a non-Greek.

    My time spent as a non-Greek was more like Animal House than my time as a fraternity member. I drank almost every day and got into fights regularly. I vandalized things and got a public intox ticket. I was a kid in College.

    When I decided to join a fraternity I joined because I wanted to do something else with my time here and actually grow as a person. I found the right group of people even though some of them weren’t that great. I have made connections throughout my time here and have met some people I will stay in contact with forever. I could have done that without Greek Life, but I couldn’t have met the people I did without it.

    After I was initiated (without ever being hazed), I took leadership positions and eventually became president of my chapter. It was the most hectic, time-consuming, fun, scary time of my life and I don’t regret doing it. I managed an organization that is recognized nationally and excelled at it. I am currently applying for jobs and I can display all the qualities they are looking for because of my experiences.

    Yes, the cost of being a member in these organizations are high; however, I got every single penny out of my dues and then some. We have social events and trips every quarter. We have meals provided to us. We have a place to go and live whenever we want. I went on leadership camps and trips to national events on the chapter’s dime. My fraternity has scholarships available for those with need that excel academically and want to be a leader. On top of that, the dividends will pay later in life in my professional career.

    It is important to know that there are some bad fraternities and sororities out there. Everyone admits that. Greek Life does not try to hide it. The point is that you can’t cast blame or hold others accountable for what 1% of the people are causing 99% of the problems.

    Also, the notion of becoming a member and instantly calling people your brother or that you love them because they are in your organization is a falsehood. I don’t think people really believe this. There are people you become close to, but the point is more that you respect each other for going through the same experiences and having the same ideals.

    If you don’t like it, don’t join.

    FRAT! | 2010-01-13 - 06:11:14 PM (CDT)

  11. As the finance adviser for a sorority at OSU and a somewhat recent graduate, I was disappointed by this article. People see what they want to see. In a chapter of nearly 100 women, it’s the five or so that go out a lot and like to party that give a sorority its reputation. When I was in college, my sorority was known as the fat sororiy... why? We did have a few girls who were overweight, but when other Greeks saw 1 girl wearing our letters who was heavy, they gave us the stereotype. Our women were in fact very talented, interesting, and had a diversity of backgrounds, beliefs, values, etc. That’s what made it fun. You join a sorority (or fraternity) for a reason. For some, it’s networking; for some, it’s sisterhood; for some, it’s leadership, philanthropy, and scholarship; for some, it’s the values upon which the sorority was founded, but above all, it’s all those things. It’s being part of something bigger than yourself. I probably keep in touch with a handful of the sisters I met and lived with in college, but each person I met then and continue to meet now enrich my life.

    Oh, and our paddles were to brag about how many littles you took. When a new member joins, she is assigned a "big," to help guide her who is an initiated member of the chapter and typically, the more of a leader you were, the more likely you were to have a new member request you. The new member decorated a paddle for her big and her big decorated one for her. It was pride in our "families" that was the true purpose of the paddles. They don’t use them anymore due to the stereotypes, which I think it really unfortunate... it was fun.

    Alumna | 2010-01-13 - 06:37:12 PM (CDT)

  12. For clarification, the Delta Tau Delta incident (as reported in the Dispatch and cited in this article) occurred at Ohio University. The author in no way meant to imply that those actions took place at Ohio State’s chapter; her original sentence introducing the anecdote is now in the online version. A printed clarification will be in next week’s paper.

    Kate L | 2010-01-13 - 08:53:12 PM (CDT)

  13. To "Osugreek" it is extremely insensitive to comment on the death of the Delta Tau Delta member, especially when none of the active members were even in college yet when that happened.
    Also, the author/Uweekly owe Delt more than just a comment in next weeks paper after failing to say that hazing incident didn’t occur at Ohio State’s chapter.
    Aside from the fact that this article was horribly written and really has no point, maybe you should try actually interviewing active members of Greek life.
    Uweekly: maybe you should hire some better writers who don’t leave out crucial information and misspell the names of those interviewed.

    thisisridiculous | 2010-01-13 - 09:12:34 PM (CDT)

  14. I have been dragged to two frat parties by friends of which both i have left within five minutes because it is comical how stereotypical they are.

    Frats r Cool | 2010-01-13 - 09:48:26 PM (CDT)

  15. This is some of the poorest journalism I’ve seen in a while. Completely uninformative title, misspellings (especially in a name!), too few and too insignificant sources, no clear objective or direction, misrepresentation of major facts, and ultimately a huge waste of time for all who read it. Sorry Elanor, back to class you go!

    Better Writer | 2010-01-13 - 10:07:36 PM (CDT)

  16. I agree. This could not be a more poorly written article. It is intentionally misleading about the the hazing with the Delts (at OU), and the reporting about AEPi is immature and embarrassing. To quote one person, who obviously has an ax grind, as the sole source on an entire fraternity is piss poor journalism. The author did not even expand as to why why AEPi made this attention craving misfit want to vomit and she blatantly neglected to note the hazing incident was at OU. As a student paper, UWeekly is supposed to show the very best in journalism that Ohio State has to offer. Its intentional misleading information, unsubstantiated quotes, and misspelled sources should be embarrassing to the entire community. UWeekly makes me want to vomit.

    UWeeklyMakesMeVomit | 2010-01-13 - 10:43:44 PM (CDT)

  17. This really was a terribly written article with poor facts and horrible misrepresentations. AEPi is one of the best fraternities here, and their chapter continues to excel. I am a brother at another fraternity, but I do respect my fellow greeks. There are a handful of social fraternities here at OSU that give us a bad name, but there are many other ones that promote actual brotherhood. Most others actually make great contributions to their community, and develop lifelong skills. The author owes an apology to Greek life for the slander she is spreading.

    proud fraternity brother | 2010-01-13 - 12:01:23 AM (CDT)

  18. What is this website? This article is making thousands of Greeks state-wide erupt in laughter. The bias in this reporting is second to none, and as a Greek at Ohio University I would like to say that while it would be convenient for YOU guys if all of our "white" stereotypical greek life was as crazy as you portray them to be. All while taking a little stab at the Jew frat too, but hey its not like the black frat brands their members or anything...........? or....... hrmmm...... but it’s okay because their black. Right? Someone should write an online article discussing the popcorn media bias as it pertains to Greek Life. Nice investigative reporting guys!!!!! .......

    WorstArticleEver | 2010-01-13 - 12:03:24 AM (CDT)

  19. For all who want to be impressed with a real student run newspaper at a school with one of the nations most historic and credible schools for journalism visit the thepost.ohiou.edu. Elanor get your head out of the sand and find your niche. This just "aint" your cup of tea maybe. Do us a favor and drop to being a regular old Communications major.

    thepostdotohioudotedu | 2010-01-13 - 12:09:23 AM (CDT)

  20. Why do Lantern writers continue to post "this article sucks", they should look in the mirror.

    seriously! | 2010-01-13 - 12:24:22 AM (CDT)

  21. Fraternities and sororites are not for everyone. As a former English major and involved member of the Panhellenic Association at the Ohio State University, I am in awe of how such a widely distributed publication would publish such an unresearched and libelous piece of reporting. Greek life is a choice that many Buckeyes make, and while it is not for everyone, it can enhance an individual’s Ohio State experience beyond parties and social networking. The issue I have with this article is not with the point of view -- every journalist is entitled to their own opinion. That being said, for the author to use such cliche stereotpying as a basis for their reporting is amateur and irresponsible at best. The lack of unbiased research shines through in this poorly constructed and completely distorted piece of trash that UWeekly is calling an article.

    DQ07 | 2010-01-13 - 01:27:29 AM (CDT)

  22. Ohnoes this article doesn’t put Greek life into the most positive light! Fellow Greeks, we must unite to post comments about how this is wrong, because um, these guys are my real brothers and would understand me unlike my twin "brother" who isn’t paying $2k per year. Not a real brother, am I right! He isn’t even my dudebra, son.

    Seriously guys, lighten up. If you really want to change the perception that most OSU students have of Greek life, start being more selective with who you accept and stop letting in the alcoholic, sex-crazed, rapist morons.

    Chuck | 2010-01-14 - 12:50:47 PM (CDT)

  23. http://chronicle.com/article/Whats-Right-With-Fraternities/49331/

    Dartmouth | 2010-01-14 - 03:52:48 PM (CDT)

  24. I think this article is completely pointless, and frankly, very poorly written. This topic has been covered hundreds of times, by what seems like every college newspaper, and I think it’s time for it to be laid to rest. Greek Life is an individual choice, and yes, there are stereotypes associated with it, but this is nothing new to the men and women who are joining. Based on what I saw in my four years at Ohio University, those who are not a part of Greek Life will make attempts to make fun of it, and those who are involved will do their best to defend it. There may be more scrutiny associated with Greek Life than with many other collegiate groups, but on the other hand, there are also a lot more students involved than with many other activities.

    And regarding the comment from the OU Post, wow that was really embarrassing, and this is coming from an OU grad. Even if the Post is better than UWeekly, show a little class!

    KL | 2010-01-14 - 04:55:12 PM (CDT)

  25. BROTHER, BE MY BROTHER!!

    BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!!

    ARE YOU MY BROTHER?? BROTHER!!!!!!!!

    henry | 2010-01-14 - 08:14:49 PM (CDT)

  26. I beleive class was an old wooden ship..

    buttplug | 2010-01-15 - 02:51:01 PM (CDT)

  27. This article is a very poor representation of what greek life is really about. It’s not fair to be generalized across, when there are so many people involved in greek life. OSU has over 60 chapters. Although many people say that Greeks go out and party a lot, that really should be college kids go out and party a lot. They say that sorority girls backstab and are materialistic, but you can find both those qualities in non-greek girls. I have friends not in greek life who go out way more than I do. Drinking and going out have nothing to do with greek life or not. It has to do with college aged kids.

    It’s articles like this that continue to give greek life a bad name. Where is the article talking about the 5000+ community service hours PHA sororities did last quarter. Or how greek women have higher GPA’s than the average college woman. These are the facts that should be printed. People forget about all the good that sororities and fraternities do.

    Mandy | 2010-01-15 - 07:16:36 PM (CDT)

  28. This quotation below is from a facebook group called "The REAL Secret Behind Greek Life." I think that it is relevant and reveals the positives of Greek life on all college campuses. Of course, there are always going to be some bad apples and ones that fall from the tree, but people who remain independent aren’t exactly little angels themselves. Girls backstab each other all the time. Guys are d-bags to each other AND ladies too. People go out and party and do stupid stuff ALL THE TIME. It’s not making an excuse for Greeks to do it - it’s just a fact that it happens and you shouldn’t judge Greeks on it just because they’re Greek! Get over yourself and stop judging organizations because you (A) don’t understand them, (b) had a bad experience, or (c) trust in stereotypes and never get to know any TRUE Greek men and women who have made a huge difference in their communities.

    Now onto the quotation from http://tinyurl.com/TheREALSecretBehindGreekLife:

    "Think Greeks are all about parties and paying for friends?? Have the idea that all sorority women are easy and fraternity men are stupid? Imagine goats being sacrificed when you think of ritual? Call Greeks followers and conformists?? If so, you may want to rethink everything because in reality you’re the one following the stereotypes of Greek Life given by the media and gossip.

    The REAL secret behind Greek Life is simple but first lets look at some facts!

    *Nationally, 71% of all Greeks graduate, while only 50% of non-Greeks graduate.
    *The All Greek GPA is higher than the overall collegiate GPA.
    *Since 1910, 85% of the Supreme Court Justices have been Greek.
    *85% of the Fortune 500 key executives are Greek.
    *Of the nation’s 50 largest corporations, 43 are headed by Greeks.
    *76% of Who’s Who in America are Greek.
    *All but two Presidents since 1825 have been Greek.
    *70% of the U.S. Presidents’ cabinet members since 1900 have been Greek.
    *76% of U.S. Senators are Greek.
    *Both women appointed to the U.S. Supreme Court were sorority members.
    *Over 85% of the student leaders on 730 campuses are members of Greek-letter organizations.
    *Less then 2% of an average college students expenses go towards Greek membership dues.
    *A study by the University of Missouri found that Greeks throughout the US and Canada are more involved on their campuses and rate their overall university experience better.
    *The same study found that Greeks are more involved in their communities; and give more generously to their alma maters.
    *Greeks form the largest network of volunteers in the U.S.-Nationally, Greeks volunteer approximately 10 million hours of community service annually.
    *Greek Life strongly encourages within its community to uphold the ideals that they were founded on: sisterhood and brotherhood, scholarship, leadership, philanthropy, and becoming better citizens of society.
    *Hazing is against National Greek Headquarters policies.
    *Nationally, Greek organizations are the largest and most visible value-based student organizations.

    Now that you have read some facts concerning Greek Life, here are *some* familiar names who are Greek who might help you see how Greek Life helps people succeed!

    Martin Luther King Jr, Adam Sandler, Admiral James J. Carey, Al Michaels, Ali Landry, Alice Sheets Marriot, Allen Bean, Alonzo Mourning, Amy Grant, Andy Griffith, Andy Rooney, Ann Margaret, Aretha Franklin, Ashley Judd, Aston Kutcher, Ben Savage, Bill Clinton, Bill Cosby, Bob Barker, Bobby Jones, Brad Pitt, Burt Reynolds, Cedric the Entertainer, Colonel Sanders, Coretta Scott King, Cybil Shepard, Danny Thomas, Dave Thomas, David Duchovny, David Letterman, David Spade, David Stern, Dick Clark, Dionne Warwick, Dr. Alyce Gullantee, Dr. Collette Kohler, Dr. Seuss, Drew Carey, Dwight Eisenhower, Elvis Presley, Faye Dunaway, Fred Savage, Gladys Knight, Goldie Hawn, Jada Pinkett Smith, Jennifer Garner, John Wayne, Johnny Carson, Kate Spade, Katie Couric, Kurt Vonnegut, Lucy Lui, Matthew McConaughey, Michael Jordan, Molly Sims, Neil Armstrong, Nick Lachey, Roger Ebert, Rosa Parks, Shaquille O’Neal, Sheryl Crow, Stephen Spielberg, Will Ferrel, Woody Harrelson, just to name a few...

    So now that you have seen a glimpse of what Greek Life is all about, I hope that you will gain a better understanding about Greeks and not give in to believing the stereotypes. True, there are definitely some members who don’t quite get what we’re about yet and yes they need to learn but STOP THE JUDGING on all of us. Get to know an individual before you make an assumption based on their personal choice. After all, the REAL secret behind Greek Life isn’t that we hold some magical powers in our rituals or that we only get to high places through networking. We are regular people wanting to do great things and we accomplish all of this with the skills we acquire through our time spent in our Greek organizations!

    FROM THE OUTSIDE LOOKING IN, YOU CAN NEVER UNDERSTAND IT. FROM THE INSIDE LOOKING OUT, YOU CAN NEVER EXPLAIN IT!"

    the link again: http://tinyurl.com/TheREALSecretBehindGreekLife

    And I want to close by saying that I AM Greek. I had some bad experiences with some of the brothers in my fraternity (not hazing related, just stupid people), and while that wasn’t the greatest - I learned a lot about life and I found other brothers who became my best friends. Being Greek got me my job after graduation, and each and every day I get to see the great things that are happening across the country because of Fraternities and Sororities. Yes, there are some rotten ones and some rotten individuals, but Greek life is more than one organization or chapter or person - treat it as such.

    TheREALSecretBehindGreekLife | 2010-01-19 - 10:59:29 AM (CDT)

  29. @TheREALSecretBehindGreekLife, your post was too long, so I did not read it.

    Thaddius | 2010-01-20 - 03:39:19 AM (CDT)

  30. BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!!

    BE MY BROTHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BROTHER????????

    BROTHER | 2010-01-21 - 02:34:02 AM (CDT)

  31. It really is hilarious how the fraternities/sororities mentioned in this article are the ones that NO ONE CARES ABOUT. Where are the top tiers?

    broseph | 2010-01-28 - 06:02:58 AM (CDT)
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